For the Love of Play

Ep 5. Naomi Jeffree: Playgroup Saved Me

• Playgroup Victoria • Season 1 • Episode 5

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"Playgroup saved me. Although I know that sounds really dramatic, I actually feel it’s really true." 
 

In Conversation with Naomi Jeffree – Playgroup Facilitator and Training Coordinator 

In our final episode of season one, we speak with our wonderful colleague and playgroup expert, Naomi Jeffree. 

Naomi has been working with families for over twenty years and her work within playgroups has focused heavily on families whose children have different abilities and needs.  

In this conversation, Naomi discusses the way playgroups can give people a profound sense of belonging, can change children’s lives for the better and which, above all else, emphasise fun and joy. She also reflects on the fact that because playgroups are so varied, there is really no such thing as typical “playgroup mum”. 

About Our Guest 

Naomi Jeffree has dedicated more than 20 years of her professional life to working with families. Today she is a facilitator, training coordinator, community leader and, most importantly, the proud mum of two boys. 

Show Links 

Learn More About Playgroup Victoria 

Episode Credits 

Hosted by Mylie Nauendorf and Sinead Halliday. 

Interview conducted by Sinead Halliday. 

Edited by Jonathan Rivett. 

Mastering by James North Productions. 

Music by Selina Byrne. 

And thanks to our little friends Toby and Adelaide for voicing the intro. 

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Mylie:

Playgroup Victoria acknowledges the traditional owners of country throughout Australia and their continuing connection to land and community. We pay our respects to them, their cultures, and to the elders past and present. For the love of play, an exploration of childhood, family, community, and belonging.

Naomi Jeffree:

I often sort of think about the fact that Playgroup is not it's not complicated. There's nothing new about Playgroup. My belief, um, and I you know I say this all the time to people, is that Playgroup has existed for thousands and thousands since the day dawn of time, really. Families gather. It's natural, it's normal. They share their experiences, they talk about, you know, recipes, or they talk about child rearing, or they talk about um their experiences during the day. Children will play and they're learning through that play, and so play group in itself is families gathering.

Mylie:

Hello and welcome to For the Love of Play. My name is Miley. And my name's Sineade. And today on the podcast, we are super happy to have our colleague, Naomi Jeffrey. Naomi has been working with families for about 15 years now.

Sinead:

Yes, she has had a big impact over the years and she's branched out to help families with different abilities. I think Naomi's strength is she creates a sense of reassurance for people and comfort, familiarity, a safe space.

Mylie:

Yeah, we we actually were really lucky to hear Naomi speak last year at an event we held to celebrate 50 years of Playgroup Victoria. And it was really moving hearing Naomi's story of growth through being a mum and then stepping into supporting her own community through Playgroup. She speaks about the power of Playgroup and the effect it had on her life, and we really just wanted to be able to share that story with everybody. And inspire people. I think she is inspiring, and we hope that that comes across. Here we go. Let's get into our conversation with Naomi.

Sinead:

Naomi Jeffrey has a great capacity for listening. She has a great capacity for creating space for conversation. Because of this, she has over time built her empathy muscle. She has, through stories, through books, through conversation, created space for people to share. Through her work with families in the early years, this has been of significant benefit to many. Naomi, welcome to our podcast.

Naomi- Jeffree:

Thanks, Janaide.

Sinead:

So great to see you as always. It's wonderful to be here. So you have two beautiful boys. What were the early years like for you? What were the early days like for you as a mum?

Naomi Jeffree:

My two boys are now 25 and 22, and they are the absolute highlight of my life, definitely. Um being early years trained, um, I was actually um trained as a mothercraft nurse, but um did a lot of um work in the early years um in terms of you know working in childcare in the very beginning. So I learned a lot um during that period of time. So when I had my children, I understood the value of play for them. And so my house and I also looked after other people's children so that I could stay home and be with my kids. Um so it was a bit of a private arrangement. But um my house was constantly um uh filled with sensory experiences, you know, shaving cream on the on the bench, or actually I used to get like a massive big um um piece of plastic and put it on the deck, and we'd have messy play out on the deck. Um play-doh train tracks constantly right throughout the house. We just played constantly. The the kids had lots of different activities and experiences, and um for me uh we were just constantly playing. It was a really, really rich um environment filled with um just doing stuff.

Sinead:

Did anything surprise you when you became a mum for the first time?

Naomi Jeffree:

Yeah. So my growing up years, my dream was to be a mum. I that's all I wanted. Um I wasn't really interested in a career as as so to speak. Um, I just wanted to be a mum, and I couldn't think of anything nicer than or more wonderful than um being a mum. And so I oh, as I said, you know, did mothercraft nursing, and so I knew how to, you know, bath a baby and I knew how to settle a baby and do all of that kind of thing. So when I had my first um Hayden, I it was a bit of a shock. Um, it was a bit of a learning curve. Not learning curve in the sense that I knew how to physically look after him, but it was very tricky for me to separate myself emotionally. Um I f I've I found that, you know, when he cried, I cried. Um it was it was a tricky time and it was a bit of a shock because my experience was that all I wanted was to be a mum. And so I think it was it was tough when I, you know, when I when I brought this little baby home, and I was it, and this was it, and I was doing what I needed to do, um, but emotionally found it very tricky. I found it hard to um separate my emotions from his emotions. Um, and so yeah, couldn't had a lot of sort of anxiousness around the the um yeah, the emotional side of caring for him.

Sinead:

During that time you became more familiar with playgroup.

Naomi Jeffree:

I did. Uh a person came up to me at the local church that I was attending and asked if I would consider running a playgroup. He knew that I was um trained in early years, and so he just sort of thought, well, you know, let's see what this looks like for Naomi. And Hayden at the time was three months old. Um, and I had a little bit of, you know, understanding around playgroup, probably not a huge amount of understanding around play group, but good enough. And so um I obviously said, yep, I can do that, no problems at all. And so I started running this playgroup and I did that for 12 years. Um, and it it's interesting because I I wrote a story, uh, my my my playgroup story actually um last year, and I I wrote um about how I came to be in that space in that playgroup. And I actually labeled it, I called it um playgroup saved me. And although it sounds very dramatic, I actually feel that it was really true. Um, because I really do feel that playgroup saved me in a lot of ways. It gave me a direction for my life. Um, 25 years later, I'm still in the playgroup world. Um, but I think it also connected me to the community. It gave me a purse, a purpose, it gave me a challenge, it put my education to use. Um, I got to have my baby at work, so to speak. Um and I found that it it became the place that I belonged. So every single Thursday morning I was at Playgroup for 12 years, and I brought, you know, the children that I was looking after, I brought them with me, and I brought, you know, my second child with me. And it became a safe space. It became something that yeah, I think it was a turning point in my life. Yeah, something that I think about now and think, you know, if if that opportunity hadn't come up, I'm not sure where I would be.

Sinead:

For many years you worked in facilitated playgroups and supported playgroups. Can you tell us a bit more about what supported playgroups are like?

Naomi Jeffree:

Yeah, so I began um in a in a paid position. I began working um in a supported play group, and from there I basically just uh yeah, went from one supporter play group to another and sort of collected them, so to speak. So trained in many different programs. Um I guess the two playgroups that were supported that stand out to me, um, I was running a Play Connect group and a My Time group. Um, and the My Time group I ran for about 14 years. Um, and the the experience was humbling and challenging and rewarding. Um, I was actually talking about it the other day to someone, and the a supported playgroup is so much more than um a place, you know, than than a play group. Um it it's there there is something very unique about a supported playgroup. Um the families that come, the needs that are met, the children, the the play, everything about it is a little bit deeper, a little bit richer. Um there's a there's a vulnerability and there's a sense of camaraderie, um, it builds community, it networks, you know, you build networks around you. I think supportive playgroup is very unique and very special.

Sinead:

For those who don't know, supported playgroups are often for children who may have disabilities, chronic illnesses, learning difficulties, and they're there with their parents. So it's a real shared experience. Without Playgroup and that playgroup community support, where do you think some of these families might have gone? What is it that's unique about these programs and what it gives to families? And when I say families, not just the children, but the parents, the carers, the volunteers who come in, older residents in the community?

Naomi Jeffree:

When we talk about supportive play group, we talk about it being a soft entry point. Um, and I think there's a lot of value in that. Um families will often be referred by an MCH nurse or you know, another professional into a supportive playgroup. And I think the the beauty of a supportive playgroup is it's like a holding space. Um it's like a beautiful place where families can come to while they are waiting, because we know that there is incredible waiting lists for services. Um, for example, a family who have a child who has a child with a speech delay, perhaps, um, to get into speech therapy is actually quite tricky and quite demanding and can be very expensive as well. So a family might be referred to play group, and it is a beautiful safe space where they can come as a facilitator to support them. There's other families who perhaps have experienced or are experiencing the same um type of issue. So for a speech delay, there might be other children with speech delay. So that presents a time where two parents can connect and network together, share experiences, and be um be in a safe space that while they're waiting, they've got a network of people around them. The position of a facilitator in a supportive playgroup is also to refer out. And so she might actually or he might actually see um see something else that, you know, perhaps um another avenue that the family could also take as well. Um, and so, you know, they're educated um with knowledge to know what services are also, you know, around. Um so it's sort of like, yeah, I I I I look at it as this beautiful, soft, gentle space where families can wait and feel supported, be supported, meet other people, meet other families, um, build their network, perhaps try other things. So, you know, um a supported play group facilitator might be able to give them a little bit of guidance around perhaps um, you know, um reading stories to their child to encourage language. Um so little thick little tips like that. Um, so they feel held. Um, and I think that is the beauty of Support a Playgroup is a family can feel held um while they're waiting. And and yeah, I think that's I think because of the waiting lists and because of the huge demand um in terms of services, I think it's just so important for families to have that um place to come.

Sinead:

We live in a society that's very tuned into romantic relationships and fairy tale aesthetics and a level of perfection that's come with technology and progress. But what of friendship? What of the friendships that develop at playgroup? Intergenerational friendships, what value are they to us?

Naomi Jeffree:

Sinead, when I think about playgroup, I often sort of think about the fact that Playgroup is not it's not complicated. There's nothing new about Playgroup. My belief, um, and I you know I say this all the time to people, is that Playgroup has existed for thousands and thousands since the day dawn of time, really, um, in all over the world, in lots of villages, um families gather. It's natural, it's normal. And families gather perhaps around a fire, they share their experiences, they talk about, you know, recipes, or they talk about child rearing, or they talk about um their experiences during the day. Children will play and they're learning through that play. And so play group in itself is families gathering. In that space, whether it's in a village thousands and thousands of years ago, or whether it's in a in a community building, you know, down the street, in that space, friendships are being developed. Networking is happening. I guess the word networking is quite a cold word when you think about friendships, but that is what is happening. People are connecting, relationships are being built. And I think that in essence, playgroup is all about relationships. It's all about finding where you belong. It's all about finding a place where you feel safe, where you feel, as I said before, held. And whether you're coming to that group, whether you're coming to that playgroup for a specific reason, you know, perhaps we know that parents, families come to play group for all sorts of different reasons. Um, so we know that, you know, those things, you know, uh are going to be met. But the essence of playgroup, I think, is relationships. People are coming to connect, to find space where they belong, where they feel needed and wanted, where their children can feel needed and wanted, um, where they can learn, where they can share experience, um, where they can give to each other. I think it's all about connection. I think people want connection. Um, people obviously need connection. Um and so I think it's very natural. It's a very inbuilt innate behavior for us to seek connection. And in Playgroup, people are seeking connection and relationships.

Sinead:

Did you feel differently about Playgroup after a once-in one hundred year pandemic in the most locked down city in the world? Do you think that it made people reflect about our relationships? Perhaps people had more time to talk to their friends. Perhaps people realized that life was really bleak without it, without being able to say hi to your neighbor or pass another parent going through the supermarket.

Naomi Jeffree:

I think it it it certainly made us think about those things. Um, and I think it did for some of us make us see what was important, what was valuable. I don't know many people who said they hated lockdown. That's the my that's the truth. I don't actually think I know many people who went, oh my god, I hate lockdown. Um, I certainly loved it. I loved it. Um, I had my kids there with me constantly. And I, you know, I found that I was connecting with them in different ways. And we've got a we've got an open fire. We're very, very lucky and very blessed. And so we use our open fire constantly all the time. And so we would sit in the lounge room with the fire on and do a puzzle. And without that time, um, I don't know whether we would have valued that as much. Now, in saying all that, I missed my family. It was hard. My family are all interstate, so we couldn't actually see each other. I missed my family, I missed some of my friends, but we had the phone. We had um, we we learned to use um technology, you know, FaceTime and and um Zoom and all of those those um technologies. And I think we learned how to be creative in ways that we possibly wouldn't have been. Um, my neighbor, her son, turned 21, and so we celebrated in a very different way. I remember actually making this massive big sign and um you know writing happy birthday, Liam on the a big sign and sneaking over to her house in in at like 10 o'clock at night and putting the sign up um on her door so that when her son woke up there was this happy birthday sign. So I think it made us think about people in a different way and be a little bit more creative in how we expressed our love and our friendship. So I think, yeah, we definitely need to value connection and value relationships and value those things that um, you know, like you know, having parties and stuff like that.

Sinead:

Um I hear you describing the value of time, and I heard a mum say the other day she has a newborn baby and she has a toddler, and she said, in some ways I have a lot more time, but I'm very busy, but I have more time, and that she has more time to sit and be present and she's sitting and she's breastfeeding, and she's she's taking a minute. But do you think part of what makes the playgroup special is that within that space people are putting away their phones, people are talking, and people are seeing each other regularly enough to know, oh perhaps are you not feeling well today? Or you weren't here last week, has it something gone on? Or oh my child hasn't done that yet. Is that is that a normal developmental time frame? How does it break open opportunities for others?

Naomi Jeffree:

I think Playgroup gives families permission to stop and to give time to their children and to have perhaps give time to themselves, um, and to give time to other people. So that yeah, I can see what you're saying. Um it's two hours, generally speaking. And I watch and I have watched for 25 years, people arrive at playgroup, put their bag down, they've probably, you know, been rushing to get to playgroup, get the other kids to school, get breakfast done, put your shoes and socks on quick, quick, quick, jump in the car, off we go to play group. And then they put their bags away and they might make a cup of tea, and then they stop. And for two hours, it's playtime. And so I think it gives permission to stop. And, you know, perhaps to spend time with your child or spend time sitting with a friend and saying, hey, what's been happening in your week? Certainly for me, it was very much about that. I was focused on what I was doing in the play group, talking to other parents, connecting with other parents, um, connecting with my children, um, doing the craft, um, the amount of times that, you know, I saw mums sitting around the play-do Play-Doh table sharing, you know, these amazing conversations that were so deep and so wonderful and so, you know, rich. Um, it was truly wonderful. Um, and I remember the conversations that, you know, that happen that possibly given you know not having playgroup wouldn't have happened. Um so it it's time to stop. Um and I yeah, and I can I I can sort of identify with the fact that when your children are young, it does seem really, really busy. It does seem full on, but then in another sense, I actually remember thinking I was far more organized when my kids were little than what I am now. I got so much done um then, and I feel like now I feel like, and maybe it's because I'm working full-time, that's probably a big part of it, but sometimes I feel like I'm drowning with with everything. And yet my kids are older now. So yeah, I think in that respect, playgroup gives families time to stop and just be.

Sinead:

And playgroups are far more expansive than what people might believe them to be. They are not necessarily in a school or in a hall. There are lots of different types of playgroups to explore. You might want to join a Bush playgroup, a dad's playgroup, an intergenerational playgroup that includes older residents of the society or a cultural playgroup where your primary language is spoken if English isn't your first language. What would you say to someone who's been to play group and thought, no, it didn't feel right?

Naomi Jeffree:

Um, I always think us um back um a little story that I share with people. Um one I met a lady one day, and um I actually happened to be looking after her child for her while she um went to work, and she worked, I think, three days a week. And so this one particular afternoon I said to her, you know, on your day off, why don't you bring that child, your child, why don't you come to playgroup? And she kind of laughed it off and sort of said, Oh, I'm not a playgroup mum. And I remember thinking, oh, what's a playgroup mum? And you know, this is many years ago before I'd sort of really gotten into playgroup. But I I remember thinking, well, what is a playgroup mum? And what does that mean? And as the years have gone by and I've thought a lot about it, um, you know, I have a little chuckle to myself because there is no playgroup mum. We're just families, um, enjoying a space together. And as I mentioned before, just gathering. I always say to parents, if you come, you know, have a go, try a play group. And if it's not right for you, if you don't feel like you fit there, if you don't feel like you belong there, try another playgroup, go to another playgroup. There are thousands of playgroups, and there are so many different types of playgroups. So when I think about um a family who possibly doesn't feel like it's the right playgroup for them, I always think try another playgroup, find your space, find your place. Um I know I knew of a family uh probably about 10 years ago who they had a little um boy who had some pretty intense behavioral issues, and um they were really struggling. And I remember her coming to play group and feeling very, very isolated. Um, there was a lot of um issues happening with his behavior. They were seeking a diagnosis. They were doing all the right things. Um, and but they wanted to come to playgroup and they couldn't find a place that they felt was right for them. And they came to the playgroup that I was running, it was a supportive playgroup. Um, and I remember having many conversations with her over the weeks, um, trying to support her and trying to sort of help her understand that, you know, that it was okay that she come to playgroup. Even though her little one, you know, um destroyed the room, tipped everything out, moved everything, you know, ran around. I I I wanted her to know that she was welcome and that she was safe and that her little boy was welcome and safe. No matter what happened, um, it, you know, I wanted her to feel like she belonged. Um, and, you know, fortunately, um she did have that experience. But I know of other families who have actually given up and they don't go to playgroup because um they don't feel like they fit in or they they belong or they don't feel safe for various reasons. So uh yeah, I I think that's really sad. Um so I I think you know, even if you if you have a little one that is really full on and, you know, runs around the room, maybe try a playgroup at a park so that there is that space for them to run. Um, I think there's always a playgroup that you can find that you'll fit in.

Sinead:

What about the playgroup Victoria team? How can they support families who might want to start a playgroup of their own?

Naomi Jeffree:

If you're wanting to start a playgroup or if you're thinking about finding a playgroup for yourself, please connect. Please connect in. Please ring Playgroup Victoria. Um, you'll you'll always be able to speak to someone who will be able to help you. Um we have um some development staff that are in our team and they are wonderful, wonderful people who are very happy to support you in um starting a playgroup. I get really worried about community play groups. Um, I guess I haven't really gone into the differences in play groups, but we have community playgroups that are family-led, you know, usually like I that was how I started. I was a volunteer parent and um I led the playgroup. So community play groups that are generally um family-led, it's usually a volunteer position or if you know, a family um running a play group, a couple of families running a playgroup. Um, and I get worried because they are becoming less and less and less and supported playgroups, which have huge value and are wonderful things. And even, you know, facilitated play groups are wonderful, wonderful things. But I get really worried about community playgroups becoming extinct. Um, and I'm not saying any of them are any better, but community play groups, there's something very unique and special about them. Usually they're a group of families. There's generally um they're meeting in lots of different spaces. I know community playgroups that meet at the beach, they meet in parks, they meet in schools, they meet in churches, community groups. Um, and I I get worried that they're going to become extinct because people are actually looking for a supported playgroup. But there is an amazing thing that happens in a community playgroup, and that is community. Um, there is a sense everybody, you know, puts their hand up for different positions, you know, I'll wash the dishes today, you know, I'll unlock the room next week, um, I'll do singing today. Everybody has a place, everybody has um, you know, a bit of a job. Um back in the day they used to have rosters. I think some pla community playgroups still do have rosters um for various jobs, but it creates a sense of belonging. Um I think the whole word volunteer scares people these days. We're we're much less likely to commit to something. Um, and I think that's a really sad because the richness that comes from a community play group, belonging in a community community play group, the the friendships, the um relationships that, you know, I remember running talking to a lady in a chemist one day, um, and I can't remember how we got onto this, but we started talking about playgroup. She was just a random lady at the chemist, and we started talking about play group. I think she might have been pregnant, but she was saying that she went to playgroup as a child, and the friendships that her mum made during that time are still just as special and wonderful and um connected now, like now, you know, 20 years later. Um, and she was sort of saying how um she was really looking forward to taking her baby to play group. Um, and she was hoping to make those connections that her mum had made, you know, 20 years ago. And she said it was an incredible, wonderful experience growing up in this community, um, and all stemmed from going to a community playgroup. So I think that there is so much value and richness in community playgroups that perhaps um is going to be lost if if they do continue to become less and less and less. Unfortunately, people don't want to put up their hand. Um, but I don't know, you know, I led that playgroup for so many years and the joy that I found in leading that play group and the challenge and the reward and the people I met and you know the experiences that I had. Um yeah, they shaped my life. And I feel like without those experiences, um, I wouldn't be the person that I am today. Um, and yes, I still have lots of those people in my life. Um, you know, 20 years later, I still have those connections. Um, and it's really important, it's very special.

Sinead:

Amy, you said at the start of the interview that Playgroup saved you. What is the power of Playgroup for anyone who's listening and is a bit reluctant to try it out, has some trepidation about going to a new space that's unfamiliar? What advice would you have for them?

Naomi Jeffree:

It sounds very dramatic when I say playgroup saved me, but it really did.

Sinead:

Um what would I say?

Naomi Jeffree:

I have as a facilitator in a supportive playgroup, I've sat on the grass next to the road, um, talking with a family for three weeks in a row, um, just to build rapport with that family so that they would be able to step into that room. And eventually that mum did step into that room and she became a core part of that play group and it changed her life. I know for me, walking into a new space is really difficult, really tricky. I'm not the type of person to join a group, you know, to um to, you know, to meet new people. Um, but I definitely know that it's worth the uncomfortableness. Um, there's lots of things that you can do. You can ask um, you know, perhaps the person that you're speaking to about the play group, ask them to come to the car park with um and meet you at the car park so that you can walk in with someone. Bring your partner, bring your sister, bring your mum, bring your auntie, whoever, your uncle, um, bring someone along with you so that you know that that um that walking into that room isn't as scary. I think you've also got to put in um you've got to sort of put yourself out of your comfort zone a little bit. When you do get to play group, you know, you have you you do sort of have to put yourself into that space, and it does take a lot of courage. Um, but I think it's worth it. And if you can find the right play group for you, um it will be, yeah, it will be such an important part of your life. And if you can try to commit to going each week and building those friendships, building those relationships, watching your children and allowing your children to build those relationships with other children, you will find that you find your community and community just is so important.

Sinead:

When we talk about play group, what's interesting as we always end up talking about the parents and the carers, that's who we're speaking to. But to finish today, what about the children? Those first zero to five years of life, our childhood. Why are those years so important? Not just for that time frame, why is that important years down the track for that individual, the family, and society?

Naomi Jeffree:

That's a big question. Um, and that's a great question. Um my kids are 20, as I mentioned, 22 and 25, and they can literally talk to anyone about anything. They are well-rounded, they are great communicators, they thrive in life, they've built amazing friendships, they know how to be a friend, and they know how to receive friendship, if that makes sense. Um, you know, they've got great social skills, they've got great life skills. Um, can you tell I'm proud of them? Um But the I think that you know if we aren't the playgroup is community, and if we're not in community, we're not able to learn how to be um social creatures. Um I think it gives children an opportunity to practice the skills of being with other people, you know, turn taking and sharing and conversation and even, you know, um using their imagination with other children. Um my kids played constantly, and I think the value of Playgroup is that it gives children opportunities to learn the skills of playing and enjoying play. Um and I th I think too that without those opportunities, I I always sort of say that, you know, we we used to take our kids to restaurants um and we taught them how to behave in a restaurant. I would never expect my three-year-old to go and sit at a table at a restaurant and um and behave if I hadn't have given them opportunity to practice that skill um as they as they were growing into that three-year-old. Um so if we if we're giving children opportunities, um, opportunities to learn from other children and to be in the space of other children and other adults as well. Um, in a playgroup setting, there's there's adults and children, you know, and sometimes there's grandparents as well, like there's the whole range of people. And so it's it's family and it's community, and everybody's learning from each other, and everybody's looking after each other, everybody's sharing experiences together, and I think there's just so much um opportunity for practicing skills, um human skills. Um, and I think that it gives children those opportunities. And to have fun. And to have fun.

Sinead:

Because absolutely. When we're having fun, we are relaxed, and then it can create so many other opportunities, can't it?

Naomi Jeffree:

Yeah, and having fun is so important. And I like you know, I always say, you know, when we talk about play, um I don't want to grow up. You know, I don't want to be an adult because I still just want to have fun. I want to be happy and engaged and um, you know, live a life that is filled with experiences and enjoy. Enjoyment. I was thinking about the word play as I was driving here today, actually. And the word enjoyment came to my mind. Um filled with happiness, filled with joy. Um, and I think that's what play does. It fills you with joy, it fills you with happiness, it it gives to you. And yeah, I just yeah, I just think it's fun.

Sinead:

Used to more of that. Thank you, Naomi. Let's go, let's go have a play and enjoy ourselves. We hope that you can all enjoy that. To all of our listeners, thank you.

Naomi- Jeffree:

Thanks, Naomi, thank you, Shaanae. It's been really wonderful to have a chat with you today.

Mylie:

Thanks for listening to this episode of For the Love of Play, and a huge thanks to Naomi for her time. For The Love of Play is a podcast produced by Playgroup Victoria. This episode was hosted by me, Miley Nauendorf. Sineade Halliday was my co-host, and as always, Sinead conducted our interview today. The episode was edited by Jonathan Ravette, and the music is performed by Selena Byrne. This was our fifth and final episode of season one, but we do have a special bonus episode to tide you over while you wait for season two. Before COVID, we recorded an interview with Professor Emeritus Dorothy Scott. Dorothy is Plague Victoria's patron and is one of the world's most accomplished experts in the fields of early childhood and the services that support and protect children. Dorothy has a remarkable life story and is one of the most compelling speakers on the subject of early years education. And we just felt that this interview remained interesting and relevant all these years on. We highly recommend having a listen, so stay tuned and we will drop that episode really soon.