S2 EP6: Ryan Carters - Sport And Conversation Creating Space For Dads

"I was happiest in the cricket world, and funnily enough I performed at my best, when I could tap into that childlike sense of play and love of the game." 
 

In Conversation with Ryan Carters – Former Professional Cricketer and Founder of Dadfit 

In this episode of For the Love of Play, we sit down with former professional cricketer and founder of dadfit, Ryan Carters. 

He tells us about his childhood, including a love of cricket that began at the age of three, his work across the world raising money for disadvantaged women in cricket-playing countries and his community work back in Australia. 

Ryan also tells us about dadfit, a grass roots not-for-profit which creates spaces for dads to reconnect with so much of what we love about childhood: play, a sense of fun and a feeling of belonging.   

About Our Guest 

Ryan Carters has carried the best of what he loved about top-level sport - mateship, empathy and teamwork - and directed it back into philanthropic and community work. A natural leader, Ryan founded dadfit, a "community on a mission to make dadding a team sport". Before turning his attention to parenting and mental health advocacy, Ryan played cricket for Victoria, New South Wales, the Sydney Sixers and the Sydney Thunder. 

• Ryan Carters' website
• The dadfit website

Show Links 

• Website: For the Love of Play 
• Listen to all episodes: Buzzsprout 
• Follow us on Instagram: @fortheloveofplaypodcast 

Learn More About Playgroup Victoria 

• Website: playgroup.org.au 
• Instagram: @playgroupvicofficial 
• Facebook: Playgroup Victoria 
• LinkedIn: Playgroup Victoria 

Episode Credits 

Hosted by Mylie Nauendorf and Sinead Halliday. 

Interview conducted by Sinead Halliday. 

Edited by Jonathan Rivett. 

Mastering by James North Productions. 

Music by Selina Byrne. 

And thanks to our little friends Laddy, Toby and Adelaide for voicing the intro. 

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Transcript

Mylie 0:00

Playgroup Victoria acknowledges the traditional owners of country throughout Australia and their continuing connection to land and community. We pay our respects to them, their cultures, and to the elders, past and present. For the love of play, an exploration of childhood, family, community, and belonging.

Ryan Carters 0:33

Well, it's interesting, this podcast is about play, and that was what sport was for me as a child. I loved playing every different sport. I still love kicking a ball at the park or shooting some hoops. But having done it professionally for several years, almost a decade at that point, it can start to feel a bit different. It becomes your job, it becomes your livelihood. And funnily enough, performed at my best when I could tap into that childlike sense of love of the game and play.

Mylie 1:10

Hello and welcome to For the Love of Play. My name is Miley, and of course I'm joined by Sineade Halliday. Hello, Sineade. How are you going?

Sinead 1:19

Hi, Miley. Hey to everyone listening.

Mylie 1:23

Well, let's get into it. Today's guest is a former professional cricketer. He's the founder of a non-for-profit called Dad Fit, and he is a dad of three himself. I recently had the team from Dad Fit reach out to me, actually, and they wanted to chat about a potential collaboration with us here at Playgroup Victoria. And when I met with them and researched their ethos, chatted about the work they were doing, I could see how well they aligned with us here at Playgroup Victoria and what it is that we do and advocate for, that being supporting communities and supporting those on their parenting journey. And we thought it'd be really great to learn more about Dad Fit and how it came to be. So we're really lucky today to have CEO and founder of Dad Fit, Ryan Carters, joining us. Sineade, before we get into it, tell us tell us a little bit more about your chat with Ryan.

Sinead 2:17

Well, so much of what this podcast is about is sharing forces working for good. And Ryan is one of those forces working in local communities. What I appreciate about Ryan, and I learnt more in this discussion, is he's the type of person who takes a challenge, one that he's seen or he's experienced himself, and he turns it into something good, something positive. And he's done that with Dad Fit, and he's done it with Batting for Change for that matter. And I think that listeners will get a lot out of this.

Mylie 2:49

Yeah, I can't wait. Well, you know, Ryan is a multifaceted person, so let's get to it. And this is our chat with Ryan Carters of Dad Fit.

Sinead 3:07

The beauty of a sport is it takes us into a flow. If we're lucky, immersed into this flow of play. Children do this so well. Then as they grow, the physicality of movement can be a release, a challenge, and most profoundly a social connect. The relationships that encircle sport take on many forms mateship, leadership, empathy, teamwork, someone to laugh beside, a space where mistakes are part of the play and people are there to help and guide you through it. For Ryan Carters, he began his career in professional cricket, those qualities he carried off the playing field and into his life's work. Ryan embarked upon philanthropic work, raising money for those in disadvantaged positions, often besieged by poverty and inequality. Ryan took his work overseas and then he circled back to communities here in Australia, creating spaces for dads to reconnect with so much of what was part of their childhood days. Play, a sense of belonging and fun, connection, and while those dads have moved into a different chapter of their lives with the increased responsibility of caring for others, those playful aspects of childhood are still residing within them and are needed now more than ever. Ryan, welcome to our podcast.

Ryan Carters 4:31

Thank you so much, Shenade. That was a beautiful intro. I'm not sure if I can live up to it, but look forward to chatting.

Sinead 4:37

No, I absolutely can. You have spoken about playing cricket with your grandmother when you were little and her doing impersonations of cricketing great Glenn McGrath. What were your early years of life like? What values did your family instill in you?

Ryan Carters 4:55

Well that particular memory was my third birthday and I received my first ever cricket bat that morning and I was standing on the driveway of our house tapping my bat saying, You'll never get me out and strangely it was true because the bowler was my aging gran and she hobbled to the crease and lobbed me gentle underarms and I dispatched her all over the garden that day. So that was my first introduction to cricket and it was really love at first sight. Uh, in answer to your question about my family, there was a love of sport for sure. Um being outdoors, exercising as much as possible. Also, there was a big focus on doing your best in anything you put try your hand at. So trying to do well at school or um other kind of extracurricular activities. And I'd say the other one was togetherness and fun. When I think back to my childhood, uh the most lasting memories are often the time off in between school holidays and things where we'd go and catch up with extended family on different parts of the coasts of New South Wales, uh, or occasionally travel overseas as a family. Uh, those opportunities to be together and not be rushed and not have to be anywhere or go anywhere immediately are really special and last for decades.

Sinead 6:11

And it's often in those simple exchanges, isn't it? You know, we often think with children, we want to give them so much, and then so much of it is just being with them.

Ryan Carters 6:23

Yeah, it's being together, playing cricket in the backyard, soccer in the winter or footy, um thinking of staying up late or what seemed late to me as a child, playing cards with my dad and mum and their brothers and sisters, that extended family. Those things are so special. Um, as a child for me, it was almost the water that I swam in. I didn't sit around thinking, oh, look at these precious family moments, because uh you don't really have that broader perspective. But in hindsight, um, those were really special parts of my childhood and things that I'd love to recreate for my children, although I do feel um that it's really hard to create that sort of family dynamic. I probably took it for granted as a child. And I often worry: am I creating as good an opportunity in life for for my children as I was fortunate to receive in those early years?

Sinead 7:12

And the modern demands on a family unit has increased, I think, in an undeniable way. You've got the cost of living, the post-pandemic life that we've got, trying to maintain a sense of equilibrium. How have you experienced that as a dad yourself?

Ryan Carters 7:36

Our story has been full of ups and downs. I f to begin with, I became a stepdad at 22. I met my partner who's now my wife, uh, when she was 35 and had a young baby, and I was 22. And if it wasn't for meeting her, there's no way I would have been becoming a parent at that stage in my life. And in some ways, I had always wanted to be a dad, but also I found it a really hard adjustment when none of my friends or peers were going through that experience at the same time. So I often felt lonely, incompetent, like I didn't know how to talk about those struggles either. I just had to keep them quiet, as though they were shameful. And then five years later, we had our second child, our daughter Goldie. And at that stage, I was fortunate to be studying overseas. I was doing my master's at Harvard in public policy, and it was this full scholarship, and it felt like a real privilege to be there, and I wanted to make the most of every minute. Um, yet at the same time, my wife and daughter had moved to the other side of the world essentially for this career opportunity of mine, and it was very isolating for my wife. She had a really difficult period of mental health, and it took me about nine months to realize just how bad things were going for our family, and that was because I was so focused on my own stuff, my own opportunities. And when I woke up to myself, I remember breaking down, crying in front of my colleagues, thinking, wow, my wife has been struggling so much. Um, our family's having a really hard time here, and I've been too absorbed in my own stuff to notice. But strangely, I also had a bit of a sense of relief because I'd talked to six-year-old, seven-year-old, eighty-year-old men who'd say their one regret in life was not spending more time with their children while they were young. And so I thought at least while I've stuffed up these first nine months and there are things I wish I'd done differently, I've got the rest of our family life to try and do things differently myself.

Sinead 9:33

And how do fathers acquire that sense of village and especially an intergenerational support crew? Being able to seek wisdom from people who have had the experiences, have been around for a long time. So many mums, well, they will get put in a mother's group, but that dads aren't always having that village opportunity. So, how have you been able to acquire that for yourself?

Ryan Carters 10:09

Yeah, so I think the experience of becoming a parent is really quite different for men and women, and of course, um, every person's story is individual and everything is unique. But as a general rule, mums um who are the birth mothers have been through this nine-month experience of pregnancy. They've been really preparing for it, attending a lot of sessions um with professionals and discussing it with friends, and then as you said, they're paired with a local new parents group once the baby arrives to build that community, receive support from a local nurse. And generally, mums take at least three months, if not 12 months, plus off work. Uh, by contrast, the typical dad um works full-time right up to the arrival of the child and then maybe has two to four weeks off and then is back working full-time. And there's none of those sort of informal or formal support structures built around the transition to fatherhood, like we've had for many decades here in Victoria, where I live, um, the maternal and child health system, which is designed to play that role for new mothers. And so I certainly, while my story felt somewhat unique in terms of being a young dad, being a stepdad, having a child overseas, and then another child back home during the pandemic. Um, but in all of those different experiences of becoming a father, not once did I feel that sense of community or village. Uh, almost unconsciously, I felt like I was going it alone. I had to work all out on my own. So that was eventually what led me to the idea of dad fit. Dad Fit is a nonprofit organization. Our mission is to make dadding a team sport. How can we make being a father feel like something you're doing surrounded by a community of other dads and parents and people more broadly, supporting you to be the best parent, the best partner, the best person you can be through those years of your life. Because having played a lot of team sport throughout my life, I know how powerful it is to have a really strong team dynamic. Um, as a cricketer, I would have my team around me. I'd know the opposition that I was up against, we'd have support staff, coaches, physios, and yet for something that's far more important than a game of sport, which is being a parent, there was a complete absence of any of that support was my experience. So dad fit, we get dads together in local communities. We do it in about 20 locations now across Victoria, and the dads meet up once a week for a two-hour session, and each session includes two halves. The first is called a dad workout, which is getting together, doing some physical exercise suitable for any fitness level, and that's all about fun. We wear dorky headbands, we play silly games, team bingo versus team Bluey. And then in the second half, we have a dad chat, which is sitting in a circle with a group of 10 to 15 other men, and it's a facilitated conversation about fatherhood. And the feedback we often get is wow, I've actually never discussed these issues with other men before. Like, how is your relationship changing having become a new parent? Or how connected are you feeling with your child at this stage? Um, being honest about for many men, it doesn't happen as instantly when the child is born, and there can be some guilt or shame associated with that. But what are the you know practical actions you can start to take in those early months and years to build up that sense of connection and bonding so that you feel very confident as a caregiver and feel really like you're playing an equal or you know, equal role at home if you're in a partnership, or for some duds they might be single parents or co-parenting in different ways, and whatever is your first personal family situation that you're really prepared to give at your best.

Sinead 13:29

So when you spoke about when you're overseas and feeling a level of overwhelm, juggling your family and studies and your priorities, what benefit do you think came from of being a bit vulnerable?

Ryan Carters 13:45

Yeah, I think the the message we receive, most of us as boys and and men is toughen up, um, go it alone, you you gotta work this out on your own. And that moment for me was a big moment because I felt a huge sense of relief and catharsis after sharing those challenges with people around me. And it doesn't make them go away. But you might start to hear perspectives from other people. Oh, I I went through a period that was really hard as well. Here's how it went for me. This is something that was helpful in my experience. Uh, and overwhelmingly, there's a sense of me too. I, you know, not everyone's life is as smooth sailing as it appears on the outside. And we see this all the time in our dad teams with dad fit. So often it takes the courage of one member of the group to open up with a vulnerable story, and then suddenly it's a cascade effect, and five or six of the other dads are also sharing their own equivalent of those stories. And even though the details of what's going on and those challenges are different for each person, there's enough similarity there that you feel this sense of, oh thank God I'm not alone, and I can stay on track for another week and then pick up some tips from other dads or parents in my community, and step by step we can get back on track.

Sinead 14:59

I was going through some statistics before coming in, and it was one in ten dads can suffer from postnatal depression, seven out of ten feel increased stress in the year after their birth. Um, there are many factors that come into that. Sleep deprivation is a big one. I remember hearing a doctor speak on ABC radio and they said, if there's an issue and you're not sleeping, we can't start working yet. Once you're sleeping, we can begin. And I think that a lot of parents don't quite realize how much that lack of sleep is having an impact on their sense of well-being. And it's also new. So what are some of the outlets for dads as well as how do you actually take that next step to get dads to show up at Dad Fit?

Ryan Carters 15:55

Well, I'll start by saying the transition to parenthood is incredibly difficult for mums. And mums still do two-thirds of the childcare and domestic work on average for young children across Australia. And so part of what we're aiming to do at Dad Fit is really create a culture. Imagine the first generation of truly gender-equal parents and partners for men in Australia. Think about what that would mean for the well-being of children, the well-being of women, opportunities for women in the workplace, and just as importantly, the happiness of men themselves, getting to really step into that role that men haven't really been culturally encouraged to do in generations past. The typical messaging that a man would receive is your job is to go to work and put food on the table. And if I look at my grandparent on my dad's side, that was very much the mold of masculinity for him. And so things are changing for men and opening up more opportunities, but probably not fast enough. So dad fit is really creating a space for dads to get together to do that. So, in answer to your question about where do you find that connection or you know, how do dads get interested in dad fit, we actually found we're tapping into a huge demand that's there already and just hasn't really been serviced. Um, we typically promote dad fit at maternal and child health groups, at local childcare centers, primary schools, um councils, and we get a really strong response pretty much every single time because there's this shared sense of so many dads of oh my god, this is really hard. And I'm feeling alone in this and I've got no one to talk to about the struggles of being a parent. At work, it tends to be small talk um around the water cooler. Even with male friendships, it tends to be a lot of talk about sport or what's going on at work. What did you watch on TV? But men typically have a hard time sharing what's actually going on in their families until the space is created for that to happen, and then it's amazing how easily it comes out once the right space has been created.

Sinead 17:56

In a study that I read uh in an article, you'd featured it, uh, Healthy Male, and it showed an alarmingly high level of loneliness for men in their from 35 to 45. So it wasn't what I was thinking in terms of when I go down to get coffee and I always see this man in his late 80s, and I always stop to talk to him and I think about him and I think, oh, he's at home by himself. But there's this cohort, and it's usually when men are starting to have a family and also they've progressed in their careers. So in what way can we deepen and make the exchange that dads are having more meaningful? Because many dads have lots of friends and lots of acquaintances, but they're not actually getting to the crux of the things that are making them feel uneasy, uncomfortable, and contributing to stress, which then's passed on to the children.

Ryan Carters 19:01

I think many people can relate to the experience of um you grow up and you leave your childhood home, and then when you return back five years later, ten years later, uh, you tend to slip back into that same role that you played in the family. And it can be the same with friendships, um, particularly male friendships, they can become entrenched at a certain point in time, and you tend to just talk about the same three or four conversations, um, even if there's much more pressing stuff weighing on your heart or your mind. Um, so I think actually creating a context where people can have those conversations that's outside of the normal catch-up on the sidelines of childcare or the local cafe or whatever it is, is really helpful. So, what we do at Dad Fit is we create that group setting, and there's something about exercising together for 45 minutes, having fun that creates a sense of trust and camaraderie in the group. So then when we sit down for our dad chat in the second half, um, and we specifically say at the start, you know, men are really good at talking about um what car they drove to work that day, what they do for crust, which footy team won on the weekend. But it can be quite hard to talk about this stuff. So we're really here to do that. Um you know, let let's not let's not muck around. This is what we're here for. Uh and then it becomes a sense of sort of challenge or courage to actually go there and share what's going on for you. And in answer to your question, what does that mean for those day-to-day male friendships? I've I've heard so many times from the dads in our groups. Um, even after week one of Dad Fit, that night on the drive home, I called my friend from 10 years ago who I've been out of touch with, and I talked to him, and we had the most real conversation we've had in years. Or, yeah, weeks later, I went to a party and normally it would just be small talk, but I actually said, How are you? And then I asked a second time, No, how are you really, mate? Uh so sometimes it's asking that second or third time. But there's something about using a context like dad fit that's a bit more structured to break the ice on those conversations that then empowers men to go and have them in other parts of their life and and hopefully with their partner and children.

Sinead 21:00

So you went on to fulfill your childhood dream of playing professional cricket. You played, you represented Victoria, New South Wales, Sydney Sixers, and the Australian 11. And then you surprised everyone at 26 by retiring. You had done a substantial amount of travel in your role as a cricketer. How did that open your eyes to what was going on in the wider world?

Ryan Carters 21:27

I think travel is amazing for opening your eyes to different cultures and different advantages and disadvantages that people have in different parts of the world. Um, for me, it helped to give me a broader perspective. Um, as a cricketer, I played in South Africa, Hong Kong, Nepal, England, India. Um, and I also traveled myself in different parts of the world in the off season when I could. Uh, and realizing that the life opportunities we have in Australia are really quite amazing, the quality of life, the sort of government. Services we have, the social safety net, playing in India in particular, and visiting slums and learning about organizations working in that space. I saw how a small amount of money can make a really big difference in those contexts. So that's what led me to found Batting for Change, a charity that was using the power of cricket in Australia to raise money for education projects in developing cricket playing countries. And it was really wonderful to visit those projects that we supported and see the impact it was having on local people who were really doing all the hard work themselves. Often it was women who'd convinced their family to let them stay at school to the end of high school when that was not typical in the culture for girls to do that. And then that also taken the brave step of saying, I want to go on and study at college, university. And so our program was providing the support financially to make that possible for them when they were doing so much hard work to make that possible already.

Sinead 22:56

And so many professional sports people, that is their whole focus. You know, you spend so much time the training, the dedication, and now with technology reviewing, seeing where you went wrong and where you can improve. What else was going on in your own mind while you were in that particular chapter of your life? Was there a calling for you to do something different? Did you feel like you fulfilled what was happening there? What motivated you to make that change?

Ryan Carters 23:37

Well, it's interesting. This podcast is about play, and that was what sport was for me as a child. I loved playing every different sport. I still love kicking a ball at the park or shooting some hoops. Um but having done it professionally for several years, almost a decade at that point, um, it can start to feel a bit different. It becomes your job, it becomes your livelihood. It's what's paying your mortgage or putting food on the table for you and your family, and same for everyone around you. So it is a different kind of dynamic. And I found I was happiest in the cricketing world and funnily enough, performed at my best when I could tap into that childlike sense of love of the game and play. Uh at the same time, I was interested in a lot of other things, and sometimes it felt like you win one week, you lose the next on the sporting field. Um, it's a bit of a zero-sum game. At the end of the day, one team's really happy and one team's really down at the end of each match. Um, but in the bigger picture, there are so many bigger challenges in the world outside of the realm of sport. And I think um growing up through my early to mid-20s, entering my late 20s, I just I had a feeling like we don't get to live forever, and there's a lot of other things I love to do and experience, and it's time to make that decision now instead of holding on to something that I decided on at the age of 18 and was right at that moment in my life. Um, so I still love cricket, and I I was watching the Ashes this week and cheering on all my old teammates winning the test match against England. But at the same time, I'm really grateful for all the different experiences that I've had and what I do now as founder and CEO of Dad Fit is by far the most fulfilling job that I've had to date. And I really love what I do, the real connections with with community and hearing stories dads from all over the world join our groups and hearing the impact that being part of Dad Fit has on them is